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Taylor's TidbitsOL Breakdown: Laying It All On The LineFri, 11/16/07 Well, here goes the impossible. I’ve been asked repeatedly by many of you to explain what I see happening along the Notre Dame offensive line this season. While the ultimate answer is probably more complex than I could possibly characterize in less than 1500 words, I thought I’d take a stab at sharing my observations from throughout the year … and hopefully shed some light on what has become the worst season on record in more categories than I care to recount. THERE IS NO “I” IN T-E-A-M (but there is an “M” and an “E”) Offensive line is one of the hardest positions to play in football in that it requires its members to not only individually perform at a high level mentally and physically, but also requires them to do something that no other position in football has to do: execute and play as a group. Most other positions, whether offensively or defensively, are manned by individuals that have a specific job within their respective unit, (e.g. cornerbacks, defensive linemen, linebackers, wide receivers, running backs, etc.). For the unit to be successful, only one person needs to make a great play, even if the other people in their unit do not. For example, if three defensive linemen get put on their back while rushing the passer, yet one of them somehow gets by his opponent, it might result in a sack. That’s good. For offensive linemen, however, the inverse is true. If four guys make their block, and one guy doesn’t, it’s also likely a sack. But in this case, that’s not good. You could go through the same exercise for the other positions and see that even though those players are part of a “unit,” they mostly work as individuals. Offensive lineman, however, comprise the only position in football that is required to truly function as a unit. And their success, or failure, is dependant upon their ability to work as a team. It is because of this fact that characteristics such as experience, leadership, chemistry, and awareness become so important along the offensive line. And it’s been the lack of these vital components that has contributed to the worst offensive line on the worst offensive team in Irish history. AGE AIN”T NOTHING BUT A NUMBER: First and foremost, the most glaring problem with the O-line this year has been youth. You just simply can’t lost players like Dan Santucci, Bob Morton, and Ryan Harris, with over 100 starts between them, and hope that things are going to be cozy on the home front. One of the requirements for an offensive lineman is to be technically sound, and that takes time to develop. You can’t be just big or athletic and expect to do well. Players at other positions have the luxury of playing earlier than the big uglies because they can rely on the skill set which is required to play at their position, usually athleticism or speed. Armando Allen, for example, shows up at ND and can run like the wind, so he found his way onto the field. “You can’t coach speed,” as they say. The development of an offensive lineman, however, takes longer to emerge because not only does it take time to get them physically ready to play (e.g. I showed up at ND at 270 pounds and left at 305 pounds), but they must also hone their skills at the position. I remember getting to Notre Dame and not knowing how to block a soul when I first stepped foot on the practice field. I was talented, but raw. I would physically overpower a guy on one play, and then get blown back or whiff on the next because I didn’t know what I was doing. This was common for a lot of my young teammates as well, and it wasn’t until I had a winter of strength and conditioning, as well as a spring football session underneath my belt, that my skills started to catch up with my potential. By the way, the first players to play out of our very talented class were CB Greg Lane, S Jeff Burris, and WR Lake Dawson. That wasn’t by accident. BackPost new commentMan, I'm sorry, but we gotta have you log in. That's so we don't get spammed. Appreciate your understanding. Don't have an account?
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Comments
Agree With Jordy 100%
Jordy's observations are 100% on the money. Doesn't everyone believe that this offensive line, SAME GUYS, would have been light years better under Joe Moore? For that matter, don't you think that Lou Holtz would have found a way to move the ball and get it in the end zone far more frequently with these same guys? The coaching staff -- from Weis to Latina to Mendoza -- is to blame for our complete lack of productivity on offense. The talent is there but has not been developed. They may be inexperienced on the college level -- but most of these guys have been playing football since 3rd grade!
Not having to be as political as Aaron
Guys,
I had the pleasure of playing with Aaron on the O Line from 1989-1993 under Joe Moore (that part wasn't always a pleasure).
I will try to chime in as best I can about the O-line for the past several years.
1. Youth and lack of experience is an issue with any O-Line...but here is the thing...were they really playing better at the end of the season vs the first game? If not...why not?
2. Everyone wants to "whitewash" this season by talking about next years "recruiting class"..just to put this O-line in perspective:
RT: Duncan: Offensive Lineman of Year GA
RG: Olson: Offensive Player of the Year NY
C: 5th year Sullivan: Parade and Super Prep All American
LG: Turkovich: PA Big 33 Team
LT: Young: 1st Team USA Today All American/#1 Lineman in Parade
3. Everytime I see footage or articles about practice I see the O-line is shorts, I see hitting dummies and sleds. Here is thing about sleds and dummies...they don't hit back nor move.
So what is the point?
These are good kids but Latina seems unable to motivate them, teach them fundamentals, nor give them the scheme to react in game situations. There was a known fact under Joe Moore that either you played on Saturday or you played on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday and while the rest of the team was watching film or doing kicking game..the O-line was doing full speed "one on one"...which meant everyone was pretty motivated to perform on Saturday and Aaron and Co did just that (270+ yards avg rushing per game from 1989-1993).
Latina is not a good fit for Notre Dame and even if Charlie gets 5 "All Universe" O-Line recruits for each of the next 3 years...they will tragically underperform with Latina at the helm.
If you disagree that Latina is more to blame then the kids....here is the test...do you think the O-line would have performed better this year under someone like Joe Moore (even with the supposed lack of talent and experience on the O-line) vs what Latina was able to produce?
algebra and running the ball
Here is the o-line problem:
let a = youth and inexperience
let b = complicated schemes
let c = pass happy
solve the equation:
a + b + c = x
Here is the answer... x = disaster as in 1 win 9 losses!!!
Does anyone know why CW didn't recognize this problem? Is it a lack of head coach awareness? Why didn't Coach Latina see this? Why didn't CW adapt his offensive philosophy to reflect this problem? Why didn't CW forget about his pass happiness and lay the ground work to be a running team if for this year only? The one shining point I will give him is the fact he did change his philosophy for the Georgia Tech disaster. We would have to conclude that IF DJ ran that offense to perfection it would have been a success. But with CW yanking the kid after the turnovers , he reverted back to being committed to the air attack.
One problem that I have to bring up from the Air Force game is this:
2nd quarter 12 play drive
7 rushes 42 yards...6 yards per
2 passes for 10 yards
1st and 10 at Air Force 11 yard line.
pass incomplete
pass incomplete
pass incomplete
WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY NOT RUN THE DAM(sp) BALL!!!!!!
Pass happy arrogance?
Out thinking the opposing DC?
Let JC build his confidence by throwing a TD?
I have no clue, do any of you?
I hope that we come out and kick all of these teams butts next year and return to the top 10 , but something keeps whispering to me over and over " not with CW at the helm"
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that CW succeeds. Arrogance aside, CW is Notre Dame. He understands Notre Dame. He sincerely wants to be here as much as Faust and Lou did. But his lack of experience is obviously getting in the way. Is anyone else worried about the Duke game?
Go IRISH...........???
ND Experience
I was fortunate enough to be on campus for the Air Force game last weekend. "Fortunate" in that I was able to breathe in the sweet autumn air on Our Lady's campus. I'm a '93 alum, in the Navy, and moving overseas in two weeks. The chance to be on campus one more time before leaving was wonderful. As bad as the season has been, the ND experience is still unique. I had an AF fan tell me, "You would never know you guys were 1-9 by the way it feels around here." I'll take that as a compliment for all of us. While this season will come to pass, it's more important for us to remember our tradition and continue to hold ourselves to that high standard. Even with the results of the game, I felt like I renewed some of my spiritual tank by walking around campus and soaking up an amazing fall day in South Bend.
The cheesy stuff aside, I have found the analysis of the OL very intriguing. I would like to see some of that analysis on the special teams play. I feel like this has been a critical weakness as well. We give up chunks of field position and momentum (what little there has been) because of poor special teams. During my years as a student, I always felt this was a marked advantage for the Irish over anyone we played.
Go get 'em this weekend fellas. Go Irish!
Mr. Taylor: Thank you and a few questions
Aaron Taylor,
Thank you for your willingness to thoughtfully explore the offensive line woes and to honestly and insightfully offer solutions. A fan's greatest hope is to receive credible, informative insights and you certainly provide that.
May I ask a few questions:
1. Coach Latina receives considerable criticism. I know each staff has a different protocol. But, with a HC like Weis, installing his offense, isn't it Weis that prescribes the techniques,the pass protection schemes, the type of blocks, that he wants Latina to install? How much say does Latina have in how the OL operates? Does he coach/teach what the HC wants? OL coaches always seem like the coaching "lifers" and dislike Coach Latina getting so much abuse.
2. You had to move to LT your senior season. I'm not asking you to assess Young; it woulds be unfair to you. But, at LT, can you be too tall, becoming a reacher, lose body balance easily? Don't tall guys sometimes invite footwork problems at LT? What was your biggest adjustments at LT?
3. Only a few college OL enter the pros and can contribute early, just a few talented players like you. It seems like it used to be a 3 year apprenticeship. So, isn't hard for college OLs to run a pro offense, with the variety of plays and types of adjustments? Did you ease into ND better because it was a run-oriented offense?
Thank you for time. It is an honor reading your thoughts and insights.
notre dame football
love my team. came to my catholic school in 1964..had just gotten beat by usc @ the coliseum.20-17. john huarte was qb...kevin MCCoy, came up to me and said hey kid... i was 11, fell in love with the irish. my heart breaks today , as we have become a laughingstock amonst college football. one of the reasons why...i played high school football, and later the college level...in h/s i played OL and DL. nose guard and offensive tackle.. in college, linebacker/noseguard. i was real lucky to be coached by great fundamentally sound coaches such as mike antista,george swade, fred diocson, bob hettig... i became all-league both ways.... you know how i got so good. great coaching, AND GREAT FUNDAMENTALS. WE HAD LIVE BLOCKING AND TACKLING DRILLS EVERY DAY. WE USED A SIX MAN SLED...4 point stances. NOTRE DAME DOES NOT DO LIVE>> big MISTAKE.. blocking dummies and tackling sleds can't do it. charlie did that in the pros...the pros rarely go live.PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. FUNDAMENTALS are the KEY... AND the IRISH ARE sorely LACKING IN THESE areas. I live in LA .. PETE CARROL HAS LIVE PRACTICES.LIVE HITTING AND BLOCKING DRILLS...#1 OFFENSIVE goes AGAINST # 1 DEFENSE..LIVE.. same with special teams.. YOU PLAY AS YOU PRACTICE...WAKE UP CHARLIE ,this isn't the pros....
If in Doubt, Block SOMEBODY
You might get lucky and block the right guy.
O-Line
Aaron, great article.
It helps explain things.
I still believe we need someone who coaches like Coach Joe Moore.
The sooner the better!
O-Line
Layhebarry had an insightful post the other day about the complexity of CW's O-Line schemes as being the main cause of the dreadful play this year, and Aaron touched on it very briefly in his piece. For me, the complexity issue is the only thing that makes all the pieces fit together. Everything Aaron said is correct, and he gave us great insight as to why it is. But, is inexperience the cause for all the problems? Clearly, other teams have young players that do OK. You can teach young players to just charge forward and clobber someone. We figure that would be the obvious way to handle a young O-Line, and CW clearly hasn't done that with this team, so therefore the conclusion is that he cannot prepare young talent. We figure he has no head coaching experience, and all of a sudden, after 2 years, the coach is a buffoon (even though he did pretty good the last 2 years). That theory doesn't work for me. It is possible he is bringing in a whole new offensive philosophy that he is teaching, and sticking with through the adversity. Other theories have Latina being the cause for all the problems. He might be, but he has coached for a long time. Why did he turn incompetent this year (although the line was weak last year also, though the talent level was not as high). Another theory is not hitting enough in Spring and Fall practice. That's a problem, but only a setback of time. Clearly, they have gotten a real world education in hitting this season. They would have gotten up to speed by now if that was the only problem.
None of the reasons typically posted really makes all the pieces add up, even though they all have some truth. But, when you add the level of complexity of CW's new schemes on top of all the other problems that Aaron talks about, only then can I see how this awful mess could have occurred. Those linemen have often been bewildered out there. Clearly, they are not being taught to just charge forward. Not knowing enough about CW's schemes, I cannot say for sure this is it, but I can say this is the only explanation for me that makes the light bulb click on in my head. Also, the Rock Report on NDNation.com had a good piece on the problems this year. Maybe in the end CW's offense may not succeed on the college level, but maybe it will, and will be something really special. I am bullish on the Irish.
Holding On
Well folks, I know I said a few weeks ago that I was done with ND for a while. But, once again my heart got the better of me. Aaron, everything you said was dead on. However, I can't shake the fact that other teams have young O-linemen that seem to be at least competent. A blind man can see that this unit is not being coached properly and is confused. As a result, it's hard to be motivated and "NASTY" when you're not sure what you are doing. I have been reading a lot of post from people who are trying to be positive and that's great. But I gotta say, there is no reason in the world for Notre Dame to be this bad PERIOD. The only good I can see from the current situation is I believe ND has hit rock bottom. Why you ask? I don't know if it's true, but the sport talk radio in ATL this morning said Vegas is making ND a home underdog to DUKE!!! THIS LADIES AND GENTLEMENT IS ROCK BOTTOM. There is no where to go but up from here. PLEASE, LET'S GO IRISH AND BEAT DUKE!!
Holding On
Your comments are right on the money. There is NO WAY this ND team including the O line should be this inept. NO WAY!! IMPOSSIBLE!! All teams need to replace experienced players with inexperienced players. That is simply the nature of college football. Losing is one thing. I can handle losing somewhat considering the lack of experience but looking so inept and incompetent is embarrassing to the entire ND program and family of fans and alumni. The entire coaching staff must reevaluate themselves and if necessary get some help and opinions from others. Should there not be any progress AT ALL during the course of a season? When we got to the "weak" part of the schedule should the performance not have improved? It really did not. If CW and staff have no answers or clue then the administration must act sooner as opposed to later. Get a staff that has some answers! Talent or lack thereof alone will not win or lose football games. Teaching and coaching at the collegiate level is paramount to success.
Changing schemes.
There are two points that I would like to focus on here.
You mentioned that the three guys we lost this year averaged over 33 starts. That certainly implies that a lot of them played a lot when they were young as well.
Charlie has talked about how he has simplified the playbook for the quarterback. Do you see that he has simplified it for the line as well? Should he?
Talent and Coaching
Aaron-
Thanks again for your insight. I'm optimistic about the upcoming season and the development of this line. I do believe the problem originated in fall camp. The staff overestimated the quality/talent of the unit. That combined with that blitz happy GT defense was a recipe for disaster. And GT unveiled the blueprint of "How to Beat the Irish." The entire football universe took note.
The original LT was overmatched and still struggles on the right side. Quickness and footwork are continual problems. Turk has improved, need more. Wenger, in his brief time at center, looked outstanding. I remember watching a play where he quickly got to the second level and asked myself, "Can our center do that?" Dan is much more comfortable at center. Olsen is hot and cold, but you can see his desire to be a player. Eric and Dan could bring the nasty. I like Stewie's footwork for such a big man, but I honestly haven't seen enough. Finally, I hear good things about Dever and Romine. And Mr. Sam is special. He's making the adjustment to the left side and that bodes well for his economic future. The new leadership with Sam and Dan will be refreshing.
Bottom line: if these guys get it figured out, the sky's the limit. If the big uglies don't, next season could be very ugly indeed.
Youth and leadership
Great article. I kept hearing how the problem was youth and leadership on the line but I didn't really understand how went together. My concern now is will there be enough experience and leadership next year to bring them up to where they need to be. Sure hope so.
O-Line
Aaron, thanks for an excellent breakdown of our offensive breakdown. Of course it doesn't explain everything, but gives a significant insight into a big reason for our woes. Your Perfect Storm analogy is one I have called the Perfect Sh*tstorm at another site. The combination of youth, inexperience, lack of depth, insanely brutal front-loaded schedule and lack of good leadership on the O-Line have helped to create the worst season in Irish history.
Funny thing is, for all the criticisms of Charlie, what could or would any coach be able to do in this situation but ride it out and make the best of it without getting your young players killed. Charlie doesn't get a pass and the heat increases next year, but at least you have pointed out to the manically enraged that this isn't all the result of a coach who has suddenly forgotten everything he ever knew and is now a cerifiable idiot.
I look forward to the next two games and seeing Wenger at center. This is the first look at what could be our starting O-Line in 2008. Keep bringing the good stuff!
By the way, someone stole Gumbels "soul" at a Bowdoin tailgater. It's in a tiny bottle, in the basement of a defunct fraternity house, marked BG the DB....
Offensive Line
Aaron, great analysis. However, I truly believe that youth is not our only problem (although it admittedly is a big contributor). The coaching is clearly lacking. Even our experienced offensive lines of the last two years underperformed. Brady Quinn, an NFL-bound QB working with two NFL-caliber WRs, was sacked a ridiculous number of times last year, and Darius Walker rarely found more than a slight crease of running room. Look at Georgia -- two true freshmen starting on their very good offensive line! In my opinion, Coach Latina has just not gotten the job done. Neither has Coach Mendoza. Our offensive linemen are as big as anyone's, but they simply do not have the power or explosion of other teams' units. Next time Ohio State, LSU or Florida plays on TV, check out their linemen's forearms, biceps and calves, them compare them to our offensive linemen. There is a very noticeable difference. I understand that at last year's NFL combine, Brady Quinn did more bench press repetitions than our senior offensive linemen! Granted, he is really strong for a QB -- but not for a guard or tackle. This must change.
Now lets take off the gloves
I appreciate your analysis and the opportunity to frame questions for you to answer. I also appreciate your professionalism and "domerism" in not taking shots at this coaching staff -- particularly Latina and whoever else is responsible for coaching this O-Line. It is the respectful attitude of alumni during times of adversity that truly define what makes this University a special place to be a part of.
That said, Aaron, you must admit the glaring deficiency of coaching here. This O-Line has been confused all year long and has made little to no progress over the span of this season. This is entirely unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. I was absolutely floored at how confused the O-Line was by the GT defense in the opener. They had months to break apart their blitz patterns and get a grip on how to respond to it. To me, this responsibility falls on the coaching staff.
The O-Line has looked bewildered and confused against mediocre opposition all season long. We need an O-Line coach who will give these guys the tools to succeed and the inspiration that breeds traits like leadership, intensity and success. I have been presented absolutely no evidence that this O-Line coaching staff has the ability to do this.
Thanks for the info.
By your estimation, with an increased focus on fundamentals and physical practices this spring and fall, combined with the experience all these guys got this year, do you see a big turn around for the o-line next year?
I've noticed that Turk seems to be doing better with just the little bit that we managed to do during the season. I am predicting a breakout year for him next season.
We will run well to the left with Young and Turk there next year. Hopefully Duncan and maybe Stewart on the right will make big strides, with Wenger at Center. It looks to be that we will have plenty of talent, and most of it with solid game experience.
Info on O line from Aaron
Aaron, thanks and that helps a lot but it does readily ignore the fact that you have a 5th year Senior anchoring the middle and Sam Young who played all year as a freshman. These guys are pretty experienced and in college ball you will go thru cycles where you don't have all upperclassmen playing the O line or any position for that matter. CW knew this going in to the year and your analysis totally ignored his responsiblity to recognize potential problems and deal with them BEFORE the season began. OR, for that matter, while the season was progressing. It appears that NO PROGRESS has been made the entire year. Same old same old every week. Even against weak competition. This quite frankly does not bode well for 2008. Aaron, in your opinion, what has to be done in the off season to turn this thing around? Cannot continue to do the same things otherwise it is very obvious to all that we will only get the same bad results in 2008. Aaron, what would you do to correct these problems in the off season?? greg ND '72
o-Line
Great analysis, but what about the apparent lack of individual technique...same answer? If so, then 2008 will be pretty good, and 2009 could be wonderful. Time to keep the faith. That Lady on the Dome has some influence.